please, no more excuses …
my previous article was based on facts
none of my points are fiction
the events of Mumbai is no tolkein fantasy
the chain of events has no definition other than terrorism
the one terrorist caught alive and has confirmed his nationality,
he has given details of his training, the orders he was given and the way he executed it
The hard facts are,
173 people were killed and 308 injured by 10 Pakistani muslims
these are no extras in a film set, they are very real,
killers doped with cocaine and sent to kill innocent indians, british and jews.
regardless of the rights and wrongs it is cannot be disputed that no other religion is in anyway linked to THIS meaningless act of violence but Islam.
I am yet to come across a “moderate muslim” who has accepted these facts of this attack.
not one will hold up their hand and have the honesty to accept the truth.
or admit that it was committed in the name of Islam.
it has been finger pointings elswheres
excuses, after excuses and theories and anecdotes.
this is the primary reason why there will never be an end to terrorist killings by muslims.
This is a response to the comment left on my last post.
While i am fully aware of how fanatics may interpret Quran to promote violence, I disagree with you that Islam IS the root cause of violence. Jihad is the political umbrella which is abused by the war mongers … war mongers, irrespective of religion, capitalize on IDIOCY of those whom they can brainwash …
A few years ago, Indians of one cult brought down an Air India flight carrying Indians of another cult … a few years ago, I saw a documentary by Anand Patwardhan, I don’t remember the film but it was footage from an Indian Nationalist rally, where the speaker was preaching Indian Supremacy, and how they couldn’t wait to take revenge in the “white” men who had subjugated them for so long … he was praising the nuclear achievements and technological advancements of India, professing “revenge” …
Such idiocracy is NOT particular to Muslims … it is universal and it is motivated by shadowy figures who stand to gain in a very material and tangible way from the intangible faith of the idiots …
My article is based on the global concept that Islamic terrorism is a reality.
I first clarify that
1.I did not say Islam is the root cause of all violence, I have said that if it is Islamic terrorism then the root cause of it can only be Islam, NOT poverty.
2. the idiots I refer to in my article are the GW Bushes and G Browns of this world who have created a frankenstein next door to us.
I do not judge the rights and wrongs of any religious extremism, what disgusts me is the lack of honesty to take responsibility. When the Khalistanis brought down the Air India flight, they did not give any fairytale excuses, they honestly admitted their separatist ideology to create Khalistan. If an Indian nationalist is preaching Indian Supremacy – at least he is honest in admitting his supremacist beliefs.
When a muslim or a muslim organisation carries out killings and themselves admits it to be in the name of Islam, I do not see how the rest of the muslim world say it wasn’t? It is this denial from the so called “moderate muslims” that perpetuates these terrorist beliefs and activities.
sorry Naj, i disagree,
the easily identifiable “fanatics” are never the problem,
the real problem is the dishonesty, hypocrisy and gutless cowardice of the “moderates” who persistently deny the existence of verses in Quran that does direct the killing of non-believers.
I do not agree that any muslim can be brainwashed to believe something that is not written in the pages of the Quran. It is a fact that there is the directive for jihad, to kill non-believers in the Quran; I do not see why muslims the world over does not admit it.
and to claim that poverty is the cause of Islamic terrorism, is an absolute myth.
Mr Osama bin Laden
Let us discuss one person whose name has become synonymous with Islamic terrorist movements. Mr Osama bin Laden.
I challenge anyone to convince me that
1. it was poverty that led Mr bin Laden to form a terrorist organisation. on the contrary it is his own $$$ billions he has used to create terror.
2. Mr bin Laden is of subnormal intelligence or literacy to have been brainwashed.
What ever he has achieved, he has achieved because of his firm convictions of the teachings of the Quran.
3. Mr Bin Laden has any need for war mongering.
He has been honest about his ideology, building an islamic caliphate, the ultimate aim of al Qaeda. and his proposed form of struggle for this ultimate aim the global jihad.
I have no problems with anyone initiating his global jihad as long it is honestly admitted that it is in the cause of Islam for the objectives of the movement is clear and others who do not believe in it can take appropriate steps to protect their own rights.
I have written many times, I would trust the words of the extremists, of the Talibans – for they are not scared to say what their aims are and which passages of Quran they follow in their holy fight. I do not trust the “moderate” muslims who will only find excuses.
So please discuss in specific reference to events of 26/11,
Mumbai was not just words – it has led to 173 deaths of civilians.
Can you explain why Pakistan, even after being shown clear proof of terror arising within her boundaries, is so hostile towards accepting the evidence?
If this attack was indeed war mongering by selfish individuals / organisation – why do they not accept the evidence and prove it was the motive of “shadowy figures” for material gain?
The extreme reluctance to accept the evidence and act on it, it signifies only one possibility,
the Pakistani military or its intelligence is/was involved as alleged –
that is state sponsered terrorism on an international scale.
to fight Mr Bin Laden’s mujahideen is not the problem,
the problem was to have the backstabbing pakistani military of Musharraf as an ally in the war.
if “moderate muslims” accepts that islamic terrorism exist,
then please do not cloud the issues with excuses and misleading rhetorics.
if “moderate muslims” believes in and says they too are in the global “war against terror”
then please do not mislead as to who the real enemies are or what their ideals are.
if “moderate muslims” across the globe expects the world to condemn
the invasion of muslim sovereign soil by US or any other nation, then at least be prepared to acknowledge the atrocity of muslims on another sovereign state, you cannot have it both ways.
if “moderate muslims”
deny the very existence of verses of Islamic Laws of Jihad in the Quran,
deny the very existence of Islam based terrorism, then that is a very different discussion,
please do not waste my time debating it here.
naj said this on January 11th, 2009 at 00:26
Hi there, took me a while to get to this.
First on the hypocrisy: There are many verses in Quoran, but they are nto upheld by “average” muslims. Only by fanatics.
Just as nationalist indians EXPLICITELY say they kill for an idology, the Islamic fantics say so as well! Just as all Indian nationalists are not murderers, all muslims are not murderers either.
No poverty is not the root cause of Islamic terrorism. But, the idiots you referred to, together with idiots who have been suppressing Muslims for the past 3 hundred years, who have been marginalizing them and humiliating them into a corner in which they have had to resort to one verse of quoran commanding the killing of disbelievers are the root case of all this.
In fact, I think the ones who are pulling the strings of Islamic extremists are sitting in Tel Aviv or in wall street. Yes idiots, soldiers of any religion and creed CAN be brain washed; can be utilized for the purposes of someone else’s agenda!
And frankly, I don’t think it is quoran that is responsible for the violence; it is sick minds. You are a physician and you must be familiar with the LOAD of evidence that is showing stressed and traumatized offsprings have a tendency for developing aggressive personalities. Yes Arabs are angry; and so are muslims and when people are angry they act irrationally and what is more irrational than FAITH? Than believeing in words written (supposedly 1387 years ago).
I don’t consider myself muslim, but I have been taught quoran as part of my school curriculum. I didn’t care much about any of it; I didn’t uphold or memorize it. But I think if there was a verse in it that addressed my particular misery of the time it would have impacted me; I am sure if I felt faith could save me and god wanted me to bring peace to the world by killing infidels I WOULD have remembered where the murderous verse of quoran is.
Islamic terrorism, Taliban, Al Quaeda are realities that need to be confronted; pests that feed off of the anger of innocent people are are being bombed to anihilation by Israeli bombs … the monster feeding these beasts off the flesh of innocent muslims IS NOT QUORAN … it is neo-colonialism … neo-coservatism … and even neo-liberalism …
littleindian said this on January 11th, 2009 at 01:48
Naj, I am not buying this.
And I cannot believe you write that the those really responsible for it all are sitting in Tel Aviv or Wall Street. Like all other “moderate” muslims, you too will never be able to say, they are sitting in Pakistan or parts of Afghanistan. You will try and find the blame everywhere, but not within Islam.
I had much respect for your views, not anymore.
If the Nazi ideology is eternally condemned for ordering killing of jews, how is Quran so different? As long as there is even a verse in the Quran that preaches intolerance of all other religions AND gives the permission for a jihad – Quran is to blame.
The only reason those verses of the Quran are not condemned by the non-muslim world is the fear of a violent backlash. The fatwas against Salman Rushdie, the demonstrations against danish cartoons, the eviction of tasleema Nasreen. That Naj, is terrorism.
Why is it the “moderate” muslims are unable to accept the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Why cannot they give equal rights to ALL religions. Why the persistent campaign by Hiz-but-tahrir for an global Islamic caliphate.
Nope. As long as the text of 1387 years ago are allowed to exist as “God’s words” to be intolerant to every living or non-living object that is non muslim – Quran is the primary cause.
Just saying it is sick minds is pure denial. In some case hypocrisy and dishonesty. If there is Islamophobia – it is because of this persistent shift of blame. For as long as this practice continues, every muslim individual is a potential “sick mind” about to be let lose to spread terror.
You took of suppression of muslims for 300 years.
Why do we not go beyond the three hundred years, to the ages when muslims invaded, killed, raped, plundered, destroyed temples and forced conversions for centuries? There are million causes for non-muslims to suffer post trauma stress through generations.
Please do not say that it is only muslim offsprings who are traumatised. There are Hindus in India, Jews in the middle east who have been traumatised by the muslims.
Arabs are angry? What did the Bamiyan Buddha’s do to them – that the statues had to be pulverises? Do you expect any buddhist to have any sympathy for “Islam” after that?
And is it anger that made muslims reject the UDHR and form the Cairo declaration.
Angry? So are we Indians.
So are the indigenous Hindus of Kashmir who have been made homeless.
We are angry at the 60 years of Pakistani war of proxy. Even now the Pakistanis are desperate to deny the truth about the Mumbai killings.
You talk of nationalist Indian’s explicitly saying they kill for an ideology.
Lets us not simply talk soundbite. You quote me the exact words – of this “ideology” you talk about.
If at all, the ideology they follow is kill if they themselves are killed. And as long as the “moderate” muslims of this world diverts the blame of islamic terrorist killings from the Quran to say the killers are sick minds and stateless or no true muslims, I cannot condemn any hindu murderers. The more we have the Pakistani terrorists in India, the more I will say it is about time.
The condemnations has to be fundamenatally honest from both sides.
Think of it this way, there were no muslims in Kashmir, Palestine, Kosovo – before Islam was born. How was it possible that the indigenous population so overwhelmingly reduce. The unspoken truth, Naj, they were ethnically cleansed from their homeland.
I will end by saying, if muslims cannot acknowledge the individual rights of non-muslims, then they should be ashamed to clamour for their own.
Traumatised?
I have been traumatise since and am traumatised every time I see this clip.
http://www.rawa.org/murder-w.htm.
This is no tel-Aviv, this is no Wall Street. This is Kabul, this is Taliban this is in the name of Islam, THIS IS ISLAM.
This is the Shariya Law that muslims in their hearts desires all over the globe.
Over my dead body.
noseycow said this on January 12th, 2009 at 05:41
LI – Your mistake is to assume that every Muslim desires Global Shariya law.
This is like saying that every English man supports the monarchy, it simply IS NOT TRUE.
Don’t argue that it is their religion and therefore a given. Devote Catholics divorce and use contraception, but they are still Catholics.
You lose your argument when you fail to see practicising Muslims as individuals who make individual choices, and frankly it reflects badly on you.
If you are a physician, how do you reconcile your intense hatred of any Muslim with your oathe to give each INDIVIDUAL patient your best care?
littleindian said this on January 12th, 2009 at 13:04
NC,
once again you draw an analogy that is not entirely accurate.
What is the religion of an Englishman? Does that religion preach unconditional support for the Monarchy. Does that religion preaches to disobey the laws and the constitution of any nation where the ex-pat Englishman maybe. More importantly, does that Englishman’s religion take away individuals’ right to free thoughts, speech, expression – right to remain a non-english national?
Closer would be the concept of “institutional racism”. The Macpherson report defined it as “… that which, covertly or overtly, resides in the policies, procedures, operations and culture of public or private institutions – reinforcing individual prejudices and being reinforced by them in turn.”
I believe the muslim (global) Ummah of being “institutionally islamist”, every muslim is an “islamist”. The key word being ‘covertly’.
Show me ONE muslim who has unequivocally denounced the concept of a Global Islamic state, or anything contrary to the teachings of Islam, openly and in public. Go on, I challenge you.
The truth is there is wide private support for the Islamists objectives than is ever admitted to publicly and there are thousands of “moderate” muslims sitting on the fence, waiting to see which way things turn out.
Were you aware of a Kalim Siddique? and his Muslim Parliament in GB? http://www.islamicthought.org/mp-is1.html – describes his work as
“Dr Siddiqui’s activism took the form of supporting, promoting and assisting the first Islamic State of the modern era, established by the Islamic Revolution in Iran”.
Yes, he was a British citizen, exploiting his rights of a free world to promote the concept of a world enslaved to Islam, every individual stripped of their fundamental rights. Can you imagine a similar Jewish Parliament in Saudi Arabia?
My hatred is not for the muslim individual .
My hatred is for the muslim practice of “institutionalised islamism’. , their belief that all other religions and every non-muslim is inferior.
Do you not hate “institutional racism”. Yet to are able to care for people who are racist, do you not? If a white person in your care makes offensive racist remarks, do you refuse to go and treat him?
That is professionalism. Every physician takes the oath to be able to dissect all issues from their psyche when they take the responsibility of a patient.
Yes, I have provided the best possible care for a patient even when being spat on my face by him for being a f***ing paki and not giving him the morphine.
I had donated my own blood for a muslim infant (whose parents could not afford to “buy” blood from private bloodbank, neither would they donate themselves) so that I could operate on him to save his life. Every time I looked up to check, the blood trickling into that little ‘muslim’ body was my own. You are the first one EVER to know this, other than a colleague that night, because today you question my commitment to my oath of being a conscientious doctor.
If you read back on my articles, I have written in support of muslims too whenever I thought their rights as individual were being compromised; – of the doctor evicted from Australia, against the US invasion of Iraq, the targeting and hanging of Saddam Hussein by Americans on false pretexts, the proposed invasion of Iran, the right to freedom of expression of Tasleema Nasreen, the bangladeshi author now stateless; and taken on arguments from non-muslims.
Noseycow – I believe in every individual’s fundamental rights – I can lay claims to those rights for myself ONLY if i am ready to stand up for the right of others too, above colour creed race or nationality.
this is how, noseycows | "me no big chief ... said this on February 7th, 2009 at 11:54
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